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	<title>Comments on: Derivative Obligations:Oh what a tangled web &#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://newcombat.net/Conversation/2008/09/27/derivative-obligations-oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave/</link>
	<description>Life during wartime</description>
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		<title>By: public protest coal</title>
		<link>http://newcombat.net/Conversation/2008/09/27/derivative-obligations-oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave/comment-page-1/#comment-72521</link>
		<dc:creator>public protest coal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Pretty intriguing thoughts...could you explain a little bit more? I might like to use some of this article in my Ph. D dissertation... &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jbraajjjjr.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;potato pot chance&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pretty intriguing thoughts&#8230;could you explain a little bit more? I might like to use some of this article in my Ph. D dissertation&#8230; <a href="http://www.jbraajjjjr.org" rel="nofollow">potato pot chance</a></p>
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		<title>By: Quincy Galuszka</title>
		<link>http://newcombat.net/Conversation/2008/09/27/derivative-obligations-oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave/comment-page-1/#comment-46728</link>
		<dc:creator>Quincy Galuszka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank you for another excellent article. Where else could anyone get that type of information in these kinds of a perfect way of writing? I&#039;ve a presentation next week, and I&#039;m on the look for such details.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for another excellent article. Where else could anyone get that type of information in these kinds of a perfect way of writing? I&#8217;ve a presentation next week, and I&#8217;m on the look for such details.</p>
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		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://newcombat.net/Conversation/2008/09/27/derivative-obligations-oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave/comment-page-1/#comment-5448</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newcombat.net/Conversation/2008/09/27/derivative-obligations-oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave/#comment-5448</guid>
		<description>&lt;a target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/26/business/economy/26housing.html?em&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here from November&lt;/a&gt; now is a Times overview on continuing declines in housing prices and sales that almost leads by blaming the enlarged crisis on the Lehman bankruptcy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a target="_blank" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/26/business/economy/26housing.html?em" rel="nofollow">Here from November</a> now is a Times overview on continuing declines in housing prices and sales that almost leads by blaming the enlarged crisis on the Lehman bankruptcy.</p>
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		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://newcombat.net/Conversation/2008/09/27/derivative-obligations-oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave/comment-page-1/#comment-4962</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 03:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Update on the Great Unwind of Lehman:

&lt;a target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/lehmans-bankruptcy-10-times-more-complicated-than-enron-1019875.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Independent&lt;/a&gt; (in Britain) today sadly sighs that Lehman&#039;s bankruptcy is ten times more complicated than Enron.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update on the Great Unwind of Lehman:</p>
<p><a target="_blank" href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/lehmans-bankruptcy-10-times-more-complicated-than-enron-1019875.html" rel="nofollow">The Independent</a> (in Britain) today sadly sighs that Lehman&#8217;s bankruptcy is ten times more complicated than Enron.</p>
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		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://newcombat.net/Conversation/2008/09/27/derivative-obligations-oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave/comment-page-1/#comment-4671</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 02:12:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newcombat.net/Conversation/2008/09/27/derivative-obligations-oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave/#comment-4671</guid>
		<description>&lt;a rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2008/10/1934-securities-exchange-act-and-all.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; is an account of how lax -- to the point of being empty -- the British securities laws were/are.

And how this made the impact of Lehman&#039;s bankruptcy all the more horrendous over there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2008/10/1934-securities-exchange-act-and-all.html" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is an account of how lax &#8212; to the point of being empty &#8212; the British securities laws were/are.</p>
<p>And how this made the impact of Lehman&#8217;s bankruptcy all the more horrendous over there.</p>
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		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://newcombat.net/Conversation/2008/09/27/derivative-obligations-oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave/comment-page-1/#comment-4575</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 06:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The mass, bushwacking &#039;auction&#039; today to determine the settling values of all the outstanding credit default swaps targeting Lehman came off with a very low/high result.

The Protection Sellers will be paying over 91 cents (out of 1.00) for every subject Lehman bond.

Estimates are that the dollar cost paid/rec&#039;d will be about 270 billion.

Big diff.  &lt;a rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/lehman-cds-final-settlement-payout-of.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;More&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The mass, bushwacking &#8216;auction&#8217; today to determine the settling values of all the outstanding credit default swaps targeting Lehman came off with a very low/high result.</p>
<p>The Protection Sellers will be paying over 91 cents (out of 1.00) for every subject Lehman bond.</p>
<p>Estimates are that the dollar cost paid/rec&#8217;d will be about 270 billion.</p>
<p>Big diff.  <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/10/lehman-cds-final-settlement-payout-of.html" rel="nofollow">More</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://newcombat.net/Conversation/2008/09/27/derivative-obligations-oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave/comment-page-1/#comment-4565</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m sorry to say I don&#039;t understand what you wrote in the first paragraph.

(Do you mean that persons unknown went about filling the universe with structured finance bonds as a kind of &lt;a target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://www.indelibleinc.com/kubrick/films/strangelove/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Doomsday Machine&lt;/a&gt;?)

In your second, I don&#039;t know who/what &quot;they&quot; (third word) refers to.

If &quot;they&quot; are the zillion swaps LBHI guaranteed in a half zillion deals still outstanding -- which now have at least technically had their Early Termination provisions triggered, then ...

Does that mean the &quot;other claims&quot; you refer to are those of Lehman&#039;s other creditors?

Presumably ALL of Lehman&#039;s creditors are seething in the street outside the Bankruptcy court.  The latter will now decide who gets what before whom, pretty much.

I have no idea where in that morass the issuer of a CDO that has an interest rate hedge provided by Lehman might stand.  &quot;It goes as it goes -- Danaans and Trojans have it alike.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry to say I don&#8217;t understand what you wrote in the first paragraph.</p>
<p>(Do you mean that persons unknown went about filling the universe with structured finance bonds as a kind of <a target="_blank" href="http://www.indelibleinc.com/kubrick/films/strangelove/" rel="nofollow">Doomsday Machine</a>?)</p>
<p>In your second, I don&#8217;t know who/what &#8220;they&#8221; (third word) refers to.</p>
<p>If &#8220;they&#8221; are the zillion swaps LBHI guaranteed in a half zillion deals still outstanding &#8212; which now have at least technically had their Early Termination provisions triggered, then &#8230;</p>
<p>Does that mean the &#8220;other claims&#8221; you refer to are those of Lehman&#8217;s other creditors?</p>
<p>Presumably ALL of Lehman&#8217;s creditors are seething in the street outside the Bankruptcy court.  The latter will now decide who gets what before whom, pretty much.</p>
<p>I have no idea where in that morass the issuer of a CDO that has an interest rate hedge provided by Lehman might stand.  &#8220;It goes as it goes &#8212; Danaans and Trojans have it alike.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Omerta</title>
		<link>http://newcombat.net/Conversation/2008/09/27/derivative-obligations-oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave/comment-page-1/#comment-4553</link>
		<dc:creator>Omerta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 11:26:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>So Ed,

Looking at the sytemic effect of these instruments and their prevalance. It would appear to untrained eye that they whether they did or did not anticipate trigs, their systemic effect is to insure &quot;the system&quot; against triggering events because they generate so much uncertainty and counterparty risk that they a large enough trig event will bring on at least the symptoms of systemic risk.    

In addition they appear to be senior claims to everything else, thus triggering subordination of all other claims.

Is this right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Ed,</p>
<p>Looking at the sytemic effect of these instruments and their prevalance. It would appear to untrained eye that they whether they did or did not anticipate trigs, their systemic effect is to insure &#8220;the system&#8221; against triggering events because they generate so much uncertainty and counterparty risk that they a large enough trig event will bring on at least the symptoms of systemic risk.    </p>
<p>In addition they appear to be senior claims to everything else, thus triggering subordination of all other claims.</p>
<p>Is this right?</p>
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		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://newcombat.net/Conversation/2008/09/27/derivative-obligations-oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave/comment-page-1/#comment-4530</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dick Fuld, the Lehman chairman (see item 4 in post above) is confessing sins before Congress today.

&lt;a rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://newcombat.net/Conversation/lehman-dick-fuld-congress/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s&lt;/a&gt; a withering blast from a pretty good Wall Street pundit.

Apparently the WSJ yesterday published an account of what Lehman&#039;s books really looked like. Garbage.

Eg: Marking commercial mortgage bonds at near par (a dollar) when the average across the Street was 65 cents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dick Fuld, the Lehman chairman (see item 4 in post above) is confessing sins before Congress today.</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://newcombat.net/Conversation/lehman-dick-fuld-congress/" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s</a> a withering blast from a pretty good Wall Street pundit.</p>
<p>Apparently the WSJ yesterday published an account of what Lehman&#8217;s books really looked like. Garbage.</p>
<p>Eg: Marking commercial mortgage bonds at near par (a dollar) when the average across the Street was 65 cents.</p>
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		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://newcombat.net/Conversation/2008/09/27/derivative-obligations-oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave/comment-page-1/#comment-4517</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 18:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newcombat.net/Conversation/2008/09/27/derivative-obligations-oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave/#comment-4517</guid>
		<description>Re billions of early-termination triggered derivatives:

Todd Harrison at &lt;a rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://www.minyanville.com/articles/lehman-dollar-C-citigroup-fre-fnm/index/a/19331/p/1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Minyanville.com&lt;/a&gt; notes that today, Monday October 6 -- with the Dow 30 down 675 at the moment after aforementioned quasi-crash in Europe:

&lt;span style=&quot;color: grey&quot;&gt;QUOTE&lt;/span&gt;

&lt;span style=&quot;color: grey&quot;&gt;weâ€™ll receive word from the International Swaps and Derivatives Association (ISDA) regarding the settlement of credit derivative transactions in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.&lt;/span&gt;

&lt;span style=&quot;color: grey&quot;&gt;How this protocol plays out will reverberate throughout the entire Credit Default Swap universe.&lt;/span&gt;

&lt;span style=&quot;color: grey&quot;&gt;In plain English, there isnâ€™t enough money to go around and counter-party risk has increased in kind. Whether or not that can be contained will go a long way in shaping the next leg of the tape.&lt;/span&gt;

&lt;span style=&quot;color: grey&quot;&gt;The government is keenly aware of these developments. &lt;/span&gt;

&lt;span style=&quot;color: grey&quot;&gt;They woefully underestimated the amount of short-term Lehman Brothers paper held in money market fundsâ€”which contributed to the panic when some funds &quot;broke a buck&quot;â€”and explains why theyâ€™ve been more careful in how theyâ€™ve since handled situations, keeping both AIG and Wachovia alive while allowing WaMu, with little short-term debt, to fail.&lt;/span&gt;

END QUOTE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re billions of early-termination triggered derivatives:</p>
<p>Todd Harrison at <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.minyanville.com/articles/lehman-dollar-C-citigroup-fre-fnm/index/a/19331/p/1" rel="nofollow">Minyanville.com</a> notes that today, Monday October 6 &#8212; with the Dow 30 down 675 at the moment after aforementioned quasi-crash in Europe:</p>
<p><span style="color: grey">QUOTE</span></p>
<p><span style="color: grey">weâ€™ll receive word from the International Swaps and Derivatives Association (ISDA) regarding the settlement of credit derivative transactions in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.</span></p>
<p><span style="color: grey">How this protocol plays out will reverberate throughout the entire Credit Default Swap universe.</span></p>
<p><span style="color: grey">In plain English, there isnâ€™t enough money to go around and counter-party risk has increased in kind. Whether or not that can be contained will go a long way in shaping the next leg of the tape.</span></p>
<p><span style="color: grey">The government is keenly aware of these developments. </span></p>
<p><span style="color: grey">They woefully underestimated the amount of short-term Lehman Brothers paper held in money market fundsâ€”which contributed to the panic when some funds &#8220;broke a buck&#8221;â€”and explains why theyâ€™ve been more careful in how theyâ€™ve since handled situations, keeping both AIG and Wachovia alive while allowing WaMu, with little short-term debt, to fail.</span></p>
<p>END QUOTE</p>
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